Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
Path: watmath!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!torn!nott!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!uunet!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!gmd.de!olymp!sfb256!volker
From: volker@sfb256.iam.uni-bonn.de ( Volker A. Brandt )
Subject: Re: APL vs J
Message-ID: <1993Apr5.160003.22174@olymp.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Sender: usenet@olymp.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Organization: Applied Math, University of Bonn, Germany
References: <9304030008.AA09782@math.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 16:00:03 GMT
Lines: 88

In article <9304030008.AA09782@math.uwaterloo.ca> "L.J. Dickey" <ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
>In an article posted today, wsj writes:
> > Could you please separate this server into <J> and <APL> ?

A thought that I also had, but since total volume is still small in c.l.apl,
I let it rest ...

>I would suggest to wsj@euler.berkeley.edu, and anyone else who shares
>his feelings:  post something about APL !  Share some code, pose some
>questions.

Yes!  That's better!

>On another note,
>
>In the scheme of things, among the usenet news groups, the group
>comp.lang.apl is a _very_ small one.  Once it was near extinction, and
>it was only because one person spoke up that it was not eliminated
>altogether.

Judging from recent traffic, the J topics are what keep c.l.apl from being
endangered again ...

>Since October 1990, the most exciting developments in APL
>have been those introduced into J.  
[...]

>All APLers would do well to understand what these features are.

True, although it is hard to see those features clearly when you follow the
J-related discussion.  Although I could run J, I do not have time to do so,
and thus I don't understand most of what's said in the J discussions.

>Would you agree with me when I say:
>
>	     The bigest news about APL is that now there
>	     are three or four versions that run under windows.

Somehow this doesn't strike me that hard :-)  I want an APL2 that's affordable,
and I want it on my Atari ST, on my IBM PC, and -- most of all -- a free 
portable APL2 in the Gnu tradition.

>I know that ISI, Manugistics, Dyalog all run under windows, and
>it might be that a product that uses APL2 is on the verge of being
>launched.  Are there others?  (yawn).

If ISI accepted credit cards, I'd have ordered their version long ago, $30 is
what I call affordable, even if it isn't [yet] APL2.

>If you disagree with me, tell me please: in your opinion,
>what exciting new language features have been introduced
>into your favorite flavour of APL?

Hmmm ... I'm still trying to learn how to use all those exciting new APL2 
features :-)


And then, "David Liebtag" <LIEBTAG@STLVM20.VNET.IBM.COM> writes:

>Was that article designed to incite argument? :-)

It seems so ;-)

>Much as I find J fascinating, I don't agree that the only fascinating
>things to happen in the APL world all revolve around J and Windows.
>They're great, but not all there is.

Weeell, I hate to pick on you, but I have a very hard time explaining to my
clients than want to run IBM APL2/PC 1.02 on their PC why they have to throw
out their IBM DOS 5.0 EMM program on their IBM PCs to be able to run the 32 bit
version at all ...  an IBM APL2/PC using XMS in a transparent fashion, that's
what I would call exciting :-)

While APL wouldn't exist without IBM, and I like APL2/PC, I feel that IBM is
orphaning APL as a product.  Or have I missed the 32-bit fully PM-integrated
APL2 for OS/2 2.x?  ;-)))

>Yawn, I hope I can avoid another great my language is better than
>yours debate.

We'll see ...

Have fun -- Volker
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bitnet:   UNM409@DBNRHRZ1                              Volker A. Brandt
Internet: volker@sfb256.iam.uni-bonn.de                Angewandte Mathematik
Phone:    +49 228 73 3427                              (Bonn, Germany)
